🎧 Expectations vs reality: baby edition - by Haley Nahman
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🎧 Expectations vs reality: baby edition
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🎧 Expectations vs reality: baby edition
Mar 20, 2024
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Hey!
As a followup to my conversation with Harling and Crystal, I wanted to hone in on my most frequently asked question: What’s surprised me about motherhood? In this episode I tell you nine things about having a baby that have turned out totally different than I expected, in good ways and bad.
From a story I tell in this episode: Nursing Sunny in a random hotel lobby in Manhattan at her bedtime
Also curious to hear your own answers to this question, or reactions to mine!
Thanks for listening,
Haley
p.s. If you’re the type to notice, Wednesday is my new podcast publish day!
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I love my non mom friends, but I cannot keep up with the group chat.
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I am soooo happy about the return of the pod 🥰🥰🥰 unrelated to this ep but I had an idea for a future Dear Danny where you and Danny ask advice from a third party - maybe someone that knows you both well. I am a super-fan and have re-listened to the whole back catalogue during your time away!
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I giggled (is there an over-thirty equivalent word for this? Don’t tell me it’s chortle or chuckle I’ll die) but anyway I did it over your admission of scanning for your therapists lauding of her *favorite* client.
I have full confidence it’s in the full transcript. 😌
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I loved this episode too. I would love to hear you do this again in a year and what has changed. Being a new parent is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Schedules and structure are how you survive. I now have a second and so much of that goes out the window as essential.
Time feels like it accelerates the older they get. It’s so hard. I keep a phone note and add things that I want to always remember and then I print it annually and add it to their box that I keep. I also love Chatbooks monthbooks. They are not the best photo quality but they help formally document the passage of time and it’s crazy to see them add up. Getting things off the phone is a challenge.
Sunny is precious, congratulations!
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Your comment at the end about being excited to show Sunny the whole world made me cry! I can’t wait to meet my baby and eventually introduce her to ice cream and swimming
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:’)
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I have an almost 2 year old and you have put into words some things I have been feeling for 2 years! Hug that squishy baby tight - the change from baby to toddler is unstoppable and so sweet but also heart wrenching. I said it before but you’re doing so well
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I hear you saying that you don’t think you are explaining things well — but you put words to quite a few feelings that have been bubbling beneath the surface. thank you. :,)
Are you taking suggestions for your conversations with Avi pod? I’m curious how humor is playing a role in parenting. I also just had a baby and I have a partner with a slightly bizarre and incredibly silly sense of humor. (I know it’s a little bit similar to Avi’s because they follow and often send me bits of Avi’s newsletter on IG 😋). I’ve found that sometimes humor is the best medicine for some baby blues, but I also just want my partner to shut up and stop joking around other times. How are you guys navigating both the serious moments and the ones that can be met with a giggle or two?
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For sure taking suggestions—we will definitely talk about this!!
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my baby is only 1 month younger than yours so i’m loving all the baby content ! it completely resonated with me that your social world can expand so much with a baby. i feel like the bar to intimacy is so much lower with new and old friends who have babies around the same age. it’s so sweet to navigate the many challenges together and just share experiences with other moms.
i loved when you said that after being out with friends you get to look forward to seeing your baby at home. i really feel even though it’s hard, having a baby has made me happier than i imagined! im 34 and put it off for a few years because i was so scared by all the negative talk about being a parent. im glad you’re also spreading the word about positive parenting experiences. it truly is way way more fun than i ever expected!
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I agree!!!
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It was so interesting to listen to your point of view and then go back and compare it to my own:
https://copperoranges.wordpress.com/2020/12/20/postpartum-report-12-weeks/
https://copperoranges.wordpress.com/2021/03/03/postpartum-report-five-months/
I wish I had had the same optimism and positivity as you have so early on, but it definitely came at around 14 months when I was actually able to start *doing* things with my kid.
I totally connected with what you said about the world really opening up to you when you have a kid! I think some people have this with dogs, but I started spending so much more time at parks and public spaces and it really connected me to my neighborhood and helped me meet people I wouldn't have met otherwise!
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As someone with no kids (and questioning) but imminently becoming an aunt, it has been fascinating and really helpful to read/listen along with your experience. Hopefully I will be able to be more helpful and knowledgeable for my sister when her baby arrives in June. Thank you for sharing!
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Great episode - love all baby and parenthood content. I made a note in my phone as I was listening and I have a dozen lines written down of which I tried to pare down below.
re breastfeeding …. holy shit it is so overwhelming to manage your boobs 24/7. I just wanted a day off to not think about it or wear something that doesn’t revolve around pumping.
re baby growing up…. The first year is chock full of fleeting experiences - good and bad! Nothing lasts! I was devastated the week of my daughter’s first birthday. I now look at photos of her in the early months and ask myself “Do I even remember what she was like then??” I hate when the answer is no… and that was me having an awesome postpartum experience.
I lol’d at you talking about wiping random stuff on yourself. Literally me all.day.
One question that came up for me is if you have felt the pressure of baby hitting certain milestones? The comparison game can be a lot.
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Oh nooo the thought of not remembering! Is there anything you wish you did? I take lots of photos and videos but I dont write anything down...I keep wondering if I should. I'm torn between wanting to document things and wanting to be present!
Yes just one day of a break from breastfeeding sounds so nice!!
Milestones haven't become a huge stress for us yet because she's mostly hit them. Could def see that getting harder! We try to have a middle approach where we know enough about them to the extent that it's fun to play with her in a particular way, but try not to stress about them
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Write things down!!! Loads of videos, more than photos.
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I agree with a 5 year journal as Joanna mentioned. I would love to look back and see the date of the first time my daughter said “mama” or made an elephant sound and moved her arm like a trunk or remember that her favorite book is wheels on the bus right now. Things photos just don’t capture 💔
In the meantime, I’ve started using the new(?) Journal app on the iPhone. I’m sure it’s far from the best option, but it’s what’s working for me right now.
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We bought a one-line-a-day 5 year journal after our son turned 2 in January. We don't fill it out every day, usually just when he says or does something particularly cute or funny... Or little things I want to always remember (Like this phase he's in where he feeds his stuffed animals imaginary pancakes every morning)... It's been a fun low key way to keep track of things (less pressure than a baby book)
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I love this idea!!
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I also do the one line a day book and it is so fun to look back at what we were experiencing a year ago!
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Was fighting for my life trying not to laugh out loud on the bus like a maniac when you were talking about your “Hollywood knockers.” I’m a few years out from wanting a babe, but I so appreciated and learned so much from this series! Thank you and Crystal and Harling for sharing <3
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It was so touching when you said your daughter doesn’t yet know about chocolate, ice cream, the ocean, hugs, holding hands. It made me think about things my son doesn’t yet know about: champagne! Solo travel! Sushi! Meandering on your own through Central Park in the spring! Funny how parenting is so common and still so special, and how many tired cliches are true. It’s like that saying “youth is wasted on the young” except “parenting refrains are wasted on the non parents”.
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And I forgot to add: yes to how your connections expand, even if briefly. I was surprised by the amount of people coming out of the woodworks with baby gifts, some of them incredibly thoughtful (handmade knits, for example!). In laws I’d never heard of, parents of my friends, friends of my parents, acquaintances from work. It was very sweet. And while it’s true that people don’t particularly care about babies, I’m struck by how nice people are to my preschooler. He came home from a hockey game with an assortment of random gifts people gave him, train conductors are always sweet, people at hotel pools will talk to him at length about his school friends (well, mostly listen).
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That is soooo cute!
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Really lovely episode! As someone who is flat-chested and maybe a little intrigued at the prospect of getting a free boob job via pregnancy it was sobering to hear that they don't feel hot haha.
If you ever feel compelled to, would love to hear more about being an aunt vs having your own kid. I'm 30 and am very unsure if I ever want kids of my own, partially because of a health predisposition but also just in general. I'm really looking forward to being an involved aunt in the lives of my sister's and my close friends' future kids in the same way my mom's childless friends and my aunt (who took care us when my mom was going through depression) were very involved in my childhood. Do you think that could be "enough" for people who maybe want to have kids a little bit but choose not to?
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Hmmm interesting question! It's so different to me that it's hard to compare. Being an aunt is so sweet and fun, but my life didn't change all that much when my nieces were born. That will vary person to person—I'm sure some aunts are hyper-involved to the point of feeling almost parental. For me it was this amazing addition to my life that wasn't much of a burden on me, and maybe that sounds ideal to some! But I think the burden/responsibility is part of the equation that makes child-raising rewarding. When you put a massive amount of time/energy/love/care into your baby, you get this massive amount of passion/energy/love in return. As an aunt, both sides of the equation are a bit muted. That sounds like I don't love my nieces, which is so wrong! But the difference is substantial. I think with anything in this vein you get out what you put in—if you spend a ton of time with your nieces and nephews, it will be more rewarding (but require more of you). Parenting kicks all this up to a very high degree, to such an extreme that it's hard to compare. Being an aunt is really sweet—it's own special thing, really!—but it did not fulfill my desire to be a parent, even close. I'm sure some people feel differently!
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Love this question! I am obsessed with being an aunt but so fearful I won’t love being a parent, would love to hear thoughts of that
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Just want to say that I love the baby content and have recommended your Substack to so many (SO. MANY.) friends. I am currently childless, but your journey mirrored my best friend’s. Your essays and pods helped me feel like I could better understand and support her. And now, I am anticipating trying. I am very afraid of being isolated in pregnancy and postpartum, particularly of my partner and siblings not understanding or, as a result, not being able to provide support I anticipate needing. Being able to share your essays with them and to ask my partner to listen to your pods with me has been a true gift. I feel my partner and I are developing a shared language and some stories around what our future may be like. Thank you.
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I’m so touched by this 😭 and excited for you!
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Echoing this comment! Currently childless but myself and my husband are planning on starting to try in the next two months. Reading your essays on everything thus far, listening to your pods on the topic (likewise have listened to many of those eps with him!), and reading so many thoughtful and insightful comments from fellow Maybe Baby-ers has made me feel calmer about the whole process, and more secure in my own feelings, doubts, fears, etc. Thank you, Haley!
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Omg the magnitude of decision making with a newborn is so overwhelming! I've been surprised by how quickly my confidence in that realm has grown and how I can tune out other people's judgment so I hope you experience that as well and hope you and Avi talk about navigating that together on your next ep.
Now that I have a toddler I've been pleasantly surprised by my patience, which I think is related to how you said you see the world so differently now. It is so easy to see things from my two year old's perspective and understand why he is frustrated or persistent or whatever. It must be hard to gave so little control over your own life!
I am so excited for you to continue this journey and to hear your perspective on all of it
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Thank you!! So nice to hear you feel like that in the toddler years ❤️🥲
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Am loving listening to these, since I’m in my early 30s and a lot of my friends are having babies. I’m still on the fence and was leaning toward not, but hearing these stories oddly helps relieve the anxiety about it. I think a big fear is losing closeness with my friends if I decided to not have kids. Even though I don’t know that I’ll ever have kids myself, I still love my close friend’s babies and want to hear all about it and try my hardest to understand what they are experiencing. I so appreciate you talking about that here and hope you try with your friends who don’t have kids too even though it does sounds harder! Thanks for speaking so candidly here! Also not annoyed by you using the word intense a lot ;)
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Hahaha THANK YOU ❤️❤️❤️
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I'm in my 20s and I love the baby content! I'm nowhere close to having a baby but I find your perspective so refreshing and I feel like you've really changed my POV about parenthood in a positive way!!
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That is so sweet to hear! Also your name sounds like a kid in a storybook!
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hehe aw thanks!!!
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37 weeks pregnant and obsessed with all your pregnancy and baby content (and forced my husband to read your first essay back). I have two friends who had kids in November and having them + you who are 4 months ahead of me and can provide insight into whats to come while it all being so fresh is so helpful. Even for my friend who was like "let me tell you my birth story it is not a scary one" it sounded SO intense. Also I think because I'm getting close I'm curious to know how many weeks you were when you actually went into labor (if you are comfy sharing).
I was loling to myself about your perspective on all the things like "I'll bring my kids wherever I go like Europeans" and "I'm not going to be tied to my baby's schedule they can nap wherever" because I am SO guilty of thinking like that. A good preemptive humbling.
Also question re: breastfeeding--you mentioned all the bottle and pumping washing and I'd be curious know when you started bottle feeding to some extent and if that was/is all breast milk? This part feels like such a black box to me!
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Congrats!! Oh man totally know the feeling of being so curious when you’re close!! I started pumping after I pulled my arm and I’m actually so glad I was forced to cross that bridge early on, because it immediately gave us options! I went back to breastfeeding for most feedings about week later, with one bottle a day in the morning while I pumped. Now I do a combination because the nanny gives her bottles! And we gave her a bit of formula that first week while I built up my supply just because it was a huge stress off of me! But I was excited when we stopped doing that just because to felt like an achievement to be producing it all myself. But now four months later I’m beginning to think I’ll start incorporating some formula soon—my supply has been a little weird since she started sleeping through the night (which can affect supply because the baby is demanding it less) and I’ve been trying to get my supply back up but it’s a lot of work!! So I’m toying with how much I want to put into it vs switching to combo feeding. Happy to answer other questions I know it can feel like such a mystery!!
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"If you have a terrible birth, it's just a bad day. Even if it's a terrible day, it's still just a day!" laughs and cries in 42 hours of labor 🤣 (this isn't shade, I totally had the same thought lol)
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Mar 20, 2024 Edited
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Really related to how hard it is to put parenthood into words. I was pretty traumatized by breastfeeding (had a very serious oversupply) and I remember telling my mom "Why does nobody talk about how terrible this is?". She told me she had had a similar experience to me and tried many times during my pregnancy to tell me how hard it is - and I *do* remember her warnings about finding a lactation consultant and telling me about how she was in much pain she wanted to cut her breast off - but somehow the words she was saying just didn't capture what actually happened. I had to experience it to understand.
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The "no one tells you this" refrain is so annoying to me. No one is telling you because you're not asking! And it's okay that you're not asking! It doesn't really apply to you and it won't make sense without a greater context!
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Absolutely. It falls on deaf ears!! 😂
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I don’t comment much, but I’m 13 weeks pregnant and just needed to tell you how helpful your baby talk has been for me! We have a similar outlook on life, and I find your perspective so refreshing. Thank you for everything you’ve shared with us so far! I will always be a fan of your baby content :)
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haley, the list of sweet things in the world that you can't wait to show your baby was seriously the cutest thing ever!! loved this ep
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agree!!! <3
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loved this! please keep talking/writing/podcast-ing about motherhood (not that you need my permission).
my birth was also surprising in many ways -- I knew I wanted an epidural and thought I'd just be able to... get one... when I asked for it. but because we live in a horrible society, and anesthesiologists are some of the highest paid doctors, there was only one on the L&D floor the night I was giving birth, and I had to wait 4 hours to get it. I went from 0 cm to 7 cm in two hours. I was begging my husband to kill me because the pain was so intense. there was no way I could have been prepared for it, and I tried! I still feel insanely angry that pain management wasn't a priority for me and isn't for so many people giving birth. like you said, if it were a car accident, we would all get immediate pain management!!!!!
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also, as I keep listening: I hate when people say don't rock your baby to sleep or comfort them in the night or whatever. we're very lucky that our baby now goes to sleep after a few books and sleeps through the night, but he didn't always, and sometimes he just needed a little comfort. being a baby is probably insane and confusing and scary! and sometimes I, a 33 year old adult, need comfort in the middle of the night, because I have a nightmare or wake up with anxiety or whatever. so why would a baby not also need and deserve that????
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Ugh I also waited hours for my epidural!! The people making these decisions have clearly never experienced childbirth. It's definitely beyond what I could imagine. I'm soooo sorry!!
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Just to jump in with a different perspective - my lense being that I have given birth 3 times and waited too long once for an epidural to be effective; but I also have a NHS midwife who knows how timings of things break down in a hospital setting! - as the anesthetist is one of the most highly skilled workers in the entire hospital (and amongst the most highly paid, meaning there really can’t be dozens of them) there tends to only be a few of them roaming at one time. In my hospital for EG there were 2. They do not work specifically on floors - or wards - they roam the *entire* hospital and try and prioritize based on who needs to get hit at what time. An epidural is not going to come before major surgery relating to an accident and i think that’s totally fair enough! And I write that as someone in so much pain during my second labour when the epidural failed that I was projectile vomiting into one of those little cardboard tubs that looks like a cowboy hat. (Could be a British thing. Likely a British thing. 🤠)
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we all deserve a lot better!!!!!!!!!!
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What are your two earrings in the pic I love them
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Ha oh man I can't remember! But I know that I just went to a department store's website and searched "sliver hoops" until I found two little pairs I liked and thought would look good together. I tried searching my inbox but can't find!
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Thanks ☺️
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If you haven't already, check out The Nurture Revolution. It speaks to many topics you brought up. I'm sorry you've had such an arduous journey.
My pregnancy and birth were very easy. Breastfeeding ended up being a challenge because my baby had a tongue tie that didn't respond to non-surgical treatments (ultimately, we got the laser surgery and she barely cried!). Once that was solved, breastfeeding continued to be a challenge, though not nearly as hard as before. Hard, as in, she was only transferring an ounce per feeding EVERY 20 MIN! I didn't experience a lot of pain, but I experienced exhaustion most people don't seem to understand. I learned that we are meant to have babies with a larger group of support. People available all the time. This doesn't function in our society - friends with kids are overburdened, friends without kids are inexperienced, segregated, or segregate themselves. We don't look to traditions as much as we look to data and a lot of pediatric self-help stuff that is baseless when you click in a few layers. All that is to say, I appreciate your perspectives. Some things are a little nail-on-chalkboard-y for me tbh but it's because I'm saddened by how women are trained to focus on the painful aspects of childbirth and mothering. I actually think you're so right to say intense. What if we thought about the particular "pains" of childbirth and mothering as intensities? Anyway - you're in it. Go as deep as you can.
You're doing great. Keep going. Breastfeed in all positions.
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Please don’t take a break from the baby podcast content! As someone who just turned 30 and will have to decide on having babies in the coming years, I find your perspective invaluable. Thank you for all that you have shared so far and I’m so happy your world has gotten larger and that you are loving it (overall lol)!
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That makes me happy to hear thank you!
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Loved this episode. I’ve listened to all of your baby content, this one felt like a guidebook I’d want to share w new moms and moms to be. I enjoyed listening even way past the baby stage bc it *is so hard to articulate and it’s a delight to hear your thoughts and sage perspective on the matter. Would love to hear more if you feel es called to share. especially how you navigate the life work balance and especially once they start talking and being utterly precious with their words, like my 3 yr old saying in the cutest voice “that song is beautiful” and “I love you mom” “your my friend” it feels like toddlers are a whole new season where I find it harder to say goodbye in the mornings. I feel priorities shift yet again, in a whole new way.
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Omg I cannot imagine the talking 😭 “this song is beautiful” 😭
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Mar 20, 2024 Edited
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I agree with others- I could have listened to twice as much of this episode! It is such a treat to hear your perspective - I gave birth to my daughter in January and have so appreciated your content about pregnancy and motherhood as it has mirrored my own timeline with the experience. I feel like I’m quoting you constantly to my husband & you have given us new ways to think about what we’ve been going through. It’s so hard to put all of it into words & you’ve been so helpful in the experience of processing all of it.
Our experience involved a rare & severe pregnancy complication that resulted in my daughter being born 7 weeks early. I especially appreciated the episodes with Crystal & Harling - it was so lovely and validating to hear Harling talk about the NICU! We were there 25 days & after an INTENSE (lol) inpatient stay then an emergency C-section, and the NICU was its own uniquely intense journey. You don’t often get to hear people talk about what it’s like, and Harling really hit the nail on the head. It’s devastating but also I literally called the NICU “training wheels” for new parents so many times, just like she did! Every day my daughter was there was a world in and of itself. I got to recover from birth while these incredibly badass nurses cared for my baby, but I also missed out on the experience of figuring out how to care for her myself. I got to ease into newborn life, but also couldn’t be there to come when she cried half the time for the first month of her life. Everything about the NICU was a duality - so helpful but also so heartbreaking.
You’re so right about breastfeeding too - I basically exclusively pump (NICU side effect), which has created a ridiculous oversupply. I feel like my life revolves around my boobs (saying you’re always on a clock with them is spot-on). I’m constantly working on managing the 20oz per day of extra milk that I make (our new chest freezer arrived yesterday & I’m also starting to donate some), and trying to figure out how to incorporate more nursing so my milk creates the immune system goodness that my daughter needs… it’s all-consuming and SO much more complicated and confusing than I could have ever imagined. AND, I love it. I’m so proud of the work I’ve done to feed my daughter -it’s one of the greatest honors and most beautiful experiences.
I am also watching Alone, ha!
Anyway, I could go on all day. Thank you so, so much, you’ve really made me feel less alone (lol again) through all of this, & it just means a lot. 💜
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Also loling that you’re watching Alone. Avi and I always watch that show during the weirdest eras
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It’s such a weird show, that totally fits!!
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Katy thank you!!! 🥺 That NICU month sounds soooo hard. I’m so glad you could relate a little to Harling’s experience. Happy we’re all going through it together!!
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I need to listen this afternoon but I finally have an answer to what surprises me the most about having a baby which is that my two boobs dont make the same amount of milk haha idk why I always assumed that it would be a 50/50 split but one is definitely the overachieving coworker and the other is the one that does the bare minimum 🤣
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Hahaha for sure. Also mine recently SWITCHED?!
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As a mom to an 11-month-old, I’ve been loving these episodes. I really struggle with putting the feeling of motherhood into words so thank you for trying. It IS intense, haha.
I was surprised by how having a baby instantly changed my perspective on basically everything. Something that would’ve bothered me before he was born, doesn’t matter one bit now. It’s like… as long as the baby is okay, everything is okay. I don’t know how to say that nothing else really matters without offending the other people in my life lol. It’s not that nothing else matters I guess, but nothing matters as much as my son. ❤️
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I feel you on the last part. I feel like I have a more refined perspective on what really matters, so when I see bullshit on the timeline or hear about people concerned about frivolous things, I just can't be bothered. I'm responsible for a whole life and want to make it great for him, and want to make this world better for him. The rest can sometimes feel like noise.
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I could’ve listened to this for twice as long. My number one surprise has been how fun it is to have a baby. I didn’t expect to love hanging out with her & being around her. I feared I’d resent her cramping my lifestyle (lol), but I don’t.
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Yes!! I remember my sister once saying to me (after telling me about bringing her kids to some silly event in town) that it’s hard to explain before you have a kid, but it’s genuinely SO FUN to see your kid have fun, even if it’s something you don’t personally find fun at all. I’m sure that will make even more sense in time but I feel like that already!
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It must be soooo different!
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Maybe Baby
The Maybe Baby podcast is a mixed bag of interviews, advice, and unfiltered thoughts on the topics of culture, politics, the internet, and being alive. It's a supplement to my weekly written newsletter. New episodes every Wednesday.
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Revisiting "maternal ambivalence"
Apr 8•Haley Nahman
Picking a baby name (and other parenthood conundrums)
Mar 25•Haley Nahman
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